Talk:Characters
Character List Edits I'm organizing the list into factions, with a section dedicated entirely to the crew of the Normandy. I thought doing it like this as opposed to just alphabetical order would make it seem more like an encyclopedia (like it's supposed to be) rather than an index (which it's not). I'm not completely done, as I haven't beaten the game yet and half of the characters are unidentifiable to me (not to mention I need to cut my freakin' nails before I keep working on this), so feel free to make edits. Just remember, it should be split up by faction, like Systems Alliance and Geth Revolutionaries and other stuff like that. There should also be short, succinct character descriptions under each of the character names. So yeah! Any complaints, problems, issues, or murderous flames, you know who I am, and I'll even leave my signature behind just so you can spam it with death threats. --Yamamoto114 07:12, 9 December 2007 (UTC) : While I agree with you completely about being an encyclopedia, it is useful when gathering information to keep lists while that information is being sorted. I added a link to this article for an alphabetical list. --avfanatic (talk) 14:49, 9 December 2007 (UTC) : Good thinking. I'll get to work further on sorting it out and making additions. Once I finish the game. XD Again, feel free to help out! --Yamamoto114 07:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC) (deceased) tag When editing this post, I noticed that Corporal Jenkins had the (deceased) tag next to his name. Now, while it's not much of a spoiler that Corporal Jenkins dies in the first few minutes of the game, you can talk to him before the first mission. Since he's not dead at the beginning of the game, I would think the (deceased) tag would be inappropriate for him. On the other hand, Private Bhatia is, for all we know, dead before the mission even starts, and only referenced to by other people, posthumously. This is why I applied the tag to her. KensterFox 04:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC) pics Can someone with a capture card record some ingame characters so we can post them here? thanks. oh and if you do, be sure to deactivate the subtitles. Dutchduc I personally think it would be better encourage the removal of pre-production screenshots and replacement with screenshots from the actual game of characters, as in some pre-pro shits they are not represented as-seen in the final game. I am particularly thinking of the shot of Garrus, Ashley and Liara on the Normandy used in this section. Anyone agree/disagree? --LeathamGrant 19:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :They're actually there because they were the best shots I had available at the time. We don't have any comm-room-conference shots, though, those might look nice here. (Unfortunately I have no means of taking screenshots as my PC version does not work on my computer, so I'm grateful for any screenshots people are kind enough to donate.) --Tullis 19:52, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :: I'll have a dig through my extensive collection. I understand the shot is nice because it shows the crew members in a scene on the Normandy, so I'll try and see if I can find something of a similar ilk --LeathamGrant 19:55, 21 October 2008 (UTC) Quotes I'm adding some quotes to the top of squadmate pages... there's some great lines in Mass Effect, shame not to see 'em. Just an experiment. If they look stupid, say so. Or better yet, give suggestions for funnier lines I might have missed. : ) --Tullis 07:38, 4 June 2008 (UTC) We should expand upon this by listing every quote / remark towards aliens or Shephard or companions or even the world, that the main squad members have made in their life-time, as many people miss these and sometimes they are crucial or important facts, as well as being interesting. I don't think I'll be able to do it however so I'd have to requisition either a specific page and thus gradual edits on it, or some other way to do it.--Delsana 23:06, 17 May 2009 (UTC) :I think every single quote might be a little much. I have been considering a quotes page but I need to look into it a little more. --Tullis 00:08, 18 May 2009 (UTC) ::Well if each main planet has 2 - 3 statements by each companion, in addition to an occasional 1 - 2 more if in another section of the planet that is important, as well as the possible 1 or 2 conversation input quotes they make, I'd have to say it wouldn't be "huge" but it would be a project. Regardless, I'd like to see which quotes I missed. --Delsana 00:20, 18 May 2009 (UTC) :::I was thinking more of a Wookiepedia-style quotes page for the main characters. --Tullis 00:27, 18 May 2009 (UTC) Characters from Novels All the characters from Mass Effect: Ascension have currently been dumped under the Systems Alliance characters heading, including enemies. Do we need a separate section for all characters from novels (say putting all the ME:Revelation characters under one heading), or are we going to organise them by Alliance / enemies / etc? --Tullis 14:45, 17 August 2008 (UTC) Dividers I played with some dividers to better split up the Alliance characters as I couldn't clearly tell where the Normandy crew stopped and the rest started. I don't know if you want to keep them, scrap them or apply the same to the other major sections...? Any thoughts? --LeathamGrant 21:02, 5 November 2008 (UTC) :Look okay but I want to tweak them slightly later. They might make it easier to handle that HUGE roll of pictures down the right there too. --Tullis 21:34, 5 November 2008 (UTC) Overhaul I think we need to do a major overhaul of this page. Having Category:Characters means there's no point simply repeating all the characters' names here. What do we think this page should be like? Who's worth putting on here, and who's worth leaving to an article link? --Tullis 01:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC) SSV Normandy Crew Why was my edit to the SSV Normandy Crew section reverted? As it currently is it goes beyond the edge of the page. Thus it should be changed to two rows, since leaving it with one is extremely sloppy. Immolo 13:36, September 27, 2009 (UTC) SSV Normandy Crew Why was my edit to the SSV Normandy Crew section reverted? As it currently is it goes beyond the edge of the page. Thus it should be changed to two rows, since leaving it with one is extremely sloppy. Immolo 13:35, September 27, 2009 (UTC) :Um, from my POV it doesn't actually go beyond the edge of the page, and no one else has reported it, but that's beside the point. It was reverted for the same reason we fixed gallery row organisation; having a big gap in the section also looks sloppy. I'll see if there's another way to organise it. --Tullis 13:38, September 27, 2009 (UTC) ::Okay, try it now. I had to split them into two tables--the problem is mostly with having an odd number of images. --Tullis 13:49, September 27, 2009 (UTC) Suggestions How about we add an 'Allies' section above adversaries instead of the Normandy crew section. We can keep Anderson and Joker, but also add the conspicuously absent Udina. I mistakenly added character boxes to the minor crew members because I thought their getting images in the character section meant they were recognised by the wiki as major characters. As for the Thorian, isn't it both a race and a character? It's mentioned several times that it's a unique organism/species all on it's own. I propose we should move it to the races page since as an adversary, it wasn't really as integral to the overall plot as Saren, Sovereign and Benezia.--TheWilsonator 12:56, October 13, 2009 (UTC) :Having an allies section makes sense (though Udina's inclusion may get a few raised eyebrows :D ). For what characters have infoboxes, I go by the characters listed on the Mass Effect poster: Shepard, all squad members, Joker, Udina, Anderson, Benezia, and Saren. :The Thorian's one of those grey areas. I agree with its removal from this page as an adversary, but I'd dispute describing it as an "extinct race". There's too much we don't know about it. "Creature" about covers it. :On another note: the races page now looks very cool, but I'd like to leave it as is for now, rather than constantly swapping the pictures around. If the defunct pictures aren't deleted, it means we have a lot of pictures going unused. And... could you please take a second to categorise images when you upload them? It takes about a second, and saves me an awful lot of time and trouble going through reams of pictures later. : ) --Tullis 13:04, October 13, 2009 (UTC) ::Thanks for the go ahead on an allies section, I'm sure Udina will enjoy the publicity, and you're probably right about the Thorian. ::I'm pretty much done with swapping pics on the races page. The Drell needed an image, the human one was a little over saturated and the Quarian one was a beta design- but that's all sorted out. The artifacts on the asari picture are tugging at my OCD though =P. ::As for categorising pics, it totally slipped my mind. Can you categorise them when you upload them or do you have to do it manually after you've done so? Either way, I'll check out my upload log and categorise any images I may have uploaded rather than have you clean up after me again. --TheWilsonator 13:23, October 13, 2009 (UTC) :::There's a page for uncategorised images if you want to find yours: , or you can check the . Yes, you can add the category while uploading: just put it in with the picture summary, like this. ::::Captain Anderson beside the SSV Normandy. Category:Characters Category:Screenshots Category:Starships :::If you don't add it when you're uploading, there's an easy category bar to add them at the bottom just above the page summary, and that's pretty quick and easy to use. It's not a huge problem, but it makes finding images sooo much easier, keeps everything organised and gives me one less job to do. : ) I'm not "cleaning up" after anyone (there's been a load of new images lately from a lot of people), just trying to keep things in order, and I just know there's going to be a deluge of images when ME2 comes out. And I also want to stay the heck away from ME2 images as much as possible, as my spoiler-avoidance is problematic, so I'm hoping people will do those for me. : ) --Tullis 14:28, October 13, 2009 (UTC) Love the way this page is organised but some pretty major characters in the plot of the first game are conspicuously absent, for example Captain Kirrahe. IMO major characters to the plot of the game should be listed, namely those listed on the Storyline page, as well as the pages with more detailed plot summaries, as they all play a role within the main plot of the game. A good way to divide them would be: Party: Shepard, Kaidan, Ashley, Garrus, Wrex, Tali, Liara. Normandy: Joker, Jenkins, Pressly, Dr Chakwas Allies: Anderson, Udina, Hackett, Nihlus, the Council Enemies: Saren, Benezia, Sovereign Citadel: Harkin, Barla Von, Dr Chloe Michel, Fist, Avina Feros: Fai Dan, Arcelia Silva Martinez, Ian Newstead, Juliana Baynham, Ethan Jeong, Lizbeth Baynham, The Thorian, Shiala Noveria: Anoleis, Gianna Parasini, Lorik Qui'in, Ventralis, Mira, Rachni Queen Virmire: Kirrahe, Rentola, Rana Thanoptis Ilos: Vigil I'm not quite confident enough to perform an edit this large myself so I'll leave it for someone else, especially as other characters may need to be added. However I don't think anyone should be taken off this list as these characters are all important to the plot.Garhdo 10:15, December 28, 2009 (UTC) :*Ok... lets see... Pressly and Chakwas are not important to the plot, and Jenkins most certianly is not important (at all) so those three can be stricken from the list... That leaves Joker, who is better placed in the Allies section anyways. So there goes the Normandy section. :*Nihlus is another Jenkins. Never in your party, and only relevant to the plot in that he got gunned down like a putz. So there he goes. The Council collectively is somewhat important, but the Council is not a character, the Councilors are, and individually, not that important to the plot. Hackett doesn't have a picture, and he's not important to the main plot, just side quests, so there he goes. That leaves Joker, Anderson and Udina for Allies. Wait a second... isn't that how it already is? :) :*Enemies- no names need removed, but one needs added. Get to that in a sec... :*Citadel- None of these people are important to the plot. You can do the entire game and only talk to each of them once, if at all, and once you leave them that time, that's it. Not what I'd call important. So there goes that entire section. :*Feros, Noveria, Virmire and Ilos- Same as the Citadel for pretty much all of them (sure you talk to a couple twice, but at the end of the day, this is for prominent characters, not plot characters). Only exception is the Thorian, who is an adversary, so he gets booted up to Enemies. And that, in a nutshell, leaves the list as we now have it! As I say all too often around here, if it's not broke, don't fix it, and this would be a major (and pretty faulty) "fix" for something that isn't broke. :*Please remember, this is a list of MAJOR characters, not plot characters. The vast majority of the characters listed on the proposed change (Jenkins, Nihlus, Pressly, Chakwas, virtually everyone in the Citadel, Noveria, Feros, Ilos and Virmire sections) are NOT major characters by any stretch of the imagination. If you want a more comprehensive list, please feel free to follow the link at the top of the character page. SpartHawg948 11:26, December 28, 2009 (UTC) Illusive Man Does he really belong as an ally? Honestly, i'm on the fence with this one. :If not an ally, what would he be then? He isn't a squad member, and he does not appear to be an adversary, either. Ally- "A person, group, or nation that is associated with another or others for some common cause or purpose", also "a person who associates or cooperates with another; supporter". Given that Shepard and the Illusive man are working together for a common cause, at least as far as the Collector situation goes, I would have to say he fits the definition of an ally quite well. Certainly better than the definition of an adversary " a person, group, or force that opposes or attacks; opponent; enemy; foe." So yes, he does belong as an ally, at least for now. Further info may throw this into doubt again, but for now he is an ally. SpartHawg948 01:34, November 14, 2009 (UTC) :The Gametrailers video makes it pretty clear he's an ally in that you're working with him because he has what you need to complete your mission, but you're at odds with him at all times and in some ways your nemesis. Sounds to me like he plays a similar role to the council in the first game. Also remember that just because someone is 'bad' doesn't mean he's not an ally. So based on the information we have he's not necessarily a good guy, but he is an ally, at least at first. JakePT 02:47, November 14, 2009 (UTC) Mass Effect 2 I'm wondering if splitting the adversaries, squadmates and allies sections into Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 sections would be wise? They are separated by a small gap but it's still not entirely clear. Although it would raise issues regarding where to put characters from both, such as Tali. Discuss :) JakePT 08:27, November 20, 2009 (UTC) :Yeah, I would say no just because of the repetition of some characters... do we put them under both, or just one and mention their names under the other, or do we just keep the nice, uniform way we have now? We're about 2 months from release... any confusion about what role certain people will play will be cleared up then and we can adjust accordingly, but for now I think we should stick to the old saw "if it's not broke, don't fix it." SpartHawg948 09:32, November 20, 2009 (UTC) What happened? to Kaidan's picture?--Xaero Dumort 21:36, November 24, 2009 (UTC) :Can you be more specific? Not sure what you are referring to. It looks just fine on my end. SpartHawg948 21:39, November 24, 2009 (UTC) :Ok... guess it must have been nothing? SpartHawg948 22:31, November 24, 2009 (UTC) ::Huh, it's fine now. Earlier couldn't see it, or even highlight the area where it was supposed to be.--Xaero Dumort 00:21, November 25, 2009 (UTC) :::It may have been a caching error. It happens occasionally, usually when I'm adding pictures to a page; they simply don't appear and you need to either refresh the page a bunch of times or wait until later. --Tullis 13:28, November 25, 2009 (UTC) Thorian & The Council Would it be alright to add the Thorian and the Council members to the adversaries and allies sections, respectively? Tophvision 02:15, December 1, 2009 (UTC) :I have no real objection to the Thorian move, but not so sure about the Council members. Depending on how you play it you can have a pretty adversarial relationship w/ them (especially the turian Councilor) to the point of letting them die. And it kind of raises some issues w/ ME2, as there will be different Councilors there depending on what ending you chose, I'm sure. SpartHawg948 02:21, December 1, 2009 (UTC) An ME2 Character (Spoilers) *Spoilers* Should we add Garrus to ME2 Allies? If he ends up being a squad member we can just move him, or if he's not, how big will his role have to be to put him there? Just thinking 'out loud'. JakePT 04:57, December 1, 2009 (UTC) :Basically the allies criteria would be either A)Having a major plot/story role in aiding Shepard (ie Captain Anderson, Ambassador Udina. the Illusive Man) or B)Being someone who, while not an actual squadmember is still pretty much a permanent fixture with whom you interact regularly (ie Joker). Someone who just passes through briefly need not apply. So, if there is evidence to support Garrus filling either of those roles in ME2, sure. But from what I've seen, no such evidence exists. For all we know, his appearance could be as the ME2 version of Cpl. Jenkins or Nihlus. SpartHawg948 05:31, December 1, 2009 (UTC) Tali Name Just to clarify on a revert I made of an edit that changed Tali's name under ME2 to vas Normandy. My spoiler excuse wasn't very good, since there's a spoiler warning, but I still don't think it makes sense to have the same character on the page twice, but with two different names. Also, we don't know at which point she takes on that name, or if she'll take it for all players (we've been told not all characters are required recruitments), and even if she does take it early, at the start of the game her name is still, presumably, Rayya, and should stay that way until after the game comes out, at least. Or, we could just change it to simply 'Tali' under both listings. JakePT 06:03, December 2, 2009 (UTC) :I think it makes perfect sense to list her with two different names if she has a different name in each game. Although really it seems completely redundant to me to have a character listed twice at all, but since we have the games split up like we do I guess it's necessary. As far as when she gets the name I think it's quite clear from the trailer that she takes it before she joins your squad which means she'll have it for the vast majority of the game. As for her not having that name for player's that don't have her as a squad member, I really don't think that matters since she's listed under squad members on this page. If she's in your squad that's the name she'll have. I guess I can concede though that we don't know all of this for sure and it could maybe wait until the game comes out. --Zinc Saucier 06:32, December 2, 2009 (UTC) ::See my thinking is that she doesn't actually have different names in the two games, in ME2, at the start at least, she is still nar Rayya, not vas Normandy. JakePT 10:26, December 2, 2009 (UTC) :::Yeah, that was my thinking on the subject too. We don't know when in the game she takes the name, and it is not, for the record, quite clear that she takes it before she joins the squad. This may seem likely, but there really is no evidence for it in the existing videos. So, yeah, we should just wait till ME2 releases, both for the reason I just stated, and b/c it does constitute a spoiler. SpartHawg948 10:55, December 2, 2009 (UTC) ::::From the look of it, we don't have a choice; random people are going to keep changing it to "vas Normandy" regardless. Either we embed a request in the page (which often get ignored anyway) or we put up with it. --Tullis 17:28, December 2, 2009 (UTC) :::::Whatev... if they want to keep changing it I can keep reverting it till the game comes out. Hopefully they'll catch on eventually, but I'm not holding my breath. SpartHawg948 20:28, December 2, 2009 (UTC) Commander Shepard Why isn't Shepard listed anywhere on this page? It seems like a pretty major absence to me. I was going to add a section for him/her myself, but I just couldn't really think of the best way to do it. --Zinc Saucier 06:53, December 2, 2009 (UTC) :Well for starters there's the fact that we don't use images of Shepard (with the one exception being the default male/female faces for the Commander Shepard page). Also, is it really necessary to include the player character here? I see no real need, nor is there a readily apparent place to list Shepard. SpartHawg948 07:43, December 2, 2009 (UTC) ::There being no readily apparent place is the only reason I didn't add it myself. Maybe what this should tell us isn't that we should leave Shepard off, but that maybe the page itself needs to be redesigned. This is a page for the characters of ME and Shepard is the main character in the game, so yeah, I think it's necessary. There are other characters I think should be listed here too, like Admiral Hackett, who we also can't include a picture of since literally none exist. I'm thinking this page could be expanded into a more extensive list with more in universe categories and then maybe a separate page could be created just for the squad members and could look more like this one. But I'm just thinking out loud here. As is there just seems to be a lot missing and the choices of who's important enough to be included and in which categories (other than the squadmates) seems very subjective. -- Zinc Saucier 07:41, December 3, 2009 (UTC) :::I don't see it as being subjective at all. It's a list of the characters in-game that you interact with heavily, as well as the main adversaries, and then the major characters from the books. You talk to Hackett a few times over a comm. He's a faceless disembodied voice. I'd say he doesn't qualify as major enough for this page. Fun fact, if you click on the "Characters" category link at the bottom of the page, it takes you to a list of ALL the characters! That pretty much covers the more extensive list thing. There's no need to make this an unnecessarily long, ultra-categorized page when the categorized lists already appear in their respective categories. This page is nice b/c it's a nice, visually appealing page w/ quick and obvious links to the pages for the characters that the most people want to know about. As such, I see no real need for a redesign. SpartHawg948 11:58, December 3, 2009 (UTC) ::::This page also originally listed EVERY character, and quickly became too cluttered to be useable. Keeping it down to the absolutely most important characters, and giving a link to a full alphabetised list at the top (because it is at the top too), has served us well. --Tullis 16:24, December 3, 2009 (UTC) ::::And no, I don't think we should have Shepard on this page. Shepard is linked from pretty much every other article, and there isn't really a place for the PC on here. If push came to shove, and said shove left me dangling from a cliff, we'd use the N7 logo on here for Shepard. But otherwise, no. --Tullis 17:24, December 3, 2009 (UTC) :::::You're probably right about keeping the page simple. I guess it just struck me as odd at first since the page is called "Characters", not "Major Characters" or "Squad Members + A Few Others", and I had originally come here expecting something more thorough. Shepard being omitted still bothers me though, but if no one else agrees I guess I can drop it. But Hackett, he's a constant presence throughout the game giving you new assignments. Lance Henrikson is even listed in the game's credits right alongside the actors playing Shepard, Saren, Benezia, Joker, Anderson, and all your squad members. Hackett is among them as one of the few characters actually named there. If that doesn't objectively classify him as important I don't know what would. -- Zinc Saucier 20:26, December 3, 2009 (UTC) ::::::Having a face? : ) --Tullis 20:51, December 3, 2009 (UTC) :::::::Indeed. He wasn't a major enough character to warrant even a 5-second holographic conversation in the comm room, or a personal appearance, even after his part in the big final battle. And he didn't really have as consistent a presence as the others, when ypu get down to it. Every time you talked to him it was for one reason and one reason only, he was giving you a mission. Whereas with other characters like Anderson or Joker, or even more minor characters like Pressly and Chakwas, you could actually converse with them, find things out about them personally, or whatever. Hackett was just your dispatcher. That fact, along with the absence of a face, speaks volumes about his prominence compared to the other characters. SpartHawg948 21:25, December 3, 2009 (UTC) 2 more characters to be revealed So according to this;http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/mass_effect_2/preview-2130-5.html; "And there's more character, too. There are ten characters you can get as part of your total team to draw from, versus the six in the original Mass Effect." We have a much bigger choice, and not to mention we are to expect 2 more characters. Your thoughts? Cynxos 23:27, December 4, 2009 (UTC) :I think you should sign your posts with 4 tildes (this guy~)! :P Other than that, it seems pretty cut and dry. More squad members. What I think about that is... there's gonna be more squad members. SpartHawg948 21:29, December 3, 2009 (UTC) An ME2 Character (Spoilers) Part Deux So should we add Joker to the ME2 Allies? Apparently he's still the pilot of the SR-2, so it's the same role as ME1 and presumably the same size? JakePT 08:00, December 10, 2009 (UTC) :Sure, although it would be preferable to use a picture of him that's actually from ME2... not sure whether there are any good ones yet, haven't really been following the images thing. SpartHawg948 08:15, December 10, 2009 (UTC) ::Wow. I was gonna say I wasn't terribly sold on the ME2 Joker picture but that it would work for now till something better came along, then I glanced at the ME picture for him. Is there any chance of getting some better pics? Maybe ones where you can actually get a decent look at his face? Everyone else has a head-shot, w/ the exception of Garrus and his action hero picture, but w/ Joker it's a ginormous chair and, oh, look! Isn't that Joker there, too? SpartHawg948 08:38, December 10, 2009 (UTC) :::I just cropped this out of a screenshot in the Joker article. I think it's a better choice. ::: :::JakePT 08:47, December 10, 2009 (UTC) ::::It sure is! Awesome! SpartHawg948 08:49, December 10, 2009 (UTC) :::::I would actually prefer another shot from the original ME for Joker, not because I don't like the shot, but because the original screenshot for that crop was taken with the film grain on and all the others are high-quality grain-less images. And the ME2 picture seems incredibly desaturated, which is weird because all the ME2 shots we have on here have been highly saturated. I may try and fix it (it looks really weird beside the Illusive Man's shot, which has high saturation and gamma). This is our page to showcase characters, after all; even Joker has his vanity. : ) Besides, now I think of it, aren't we short of Joker pics in general? --Tullis 13:25, December 10, 2009 (UTC) Cast Page I've been thinking that maybe a Cast page is a good idea. Somewhere where the voice (and model) cast is listed in full. At the moment all we have is small notes on some character pages about who played them, and some people who voiced multiple roles have no place to see what other characters they voiced. It seems like a good idea to have a cast page for Mass Effect since one of the big selling points is its pretty high profile voice cast. It would be something simple, IMDB like where it's a list of cast members next to the roles they played with links to the characters page. I'm not sure if this idea has been floated before, if an actual page exists already. I did a search of pages and talk pages and couldn't find anything, so if it exists, it's very well hidden. PS: I didn't know where to put this, and the Characters page is the most closely related so I just put it here. :Honestly, thus far we've avoided real-life pages like that, and I'd really like to keep it that way. Another problem is that many of the more minor characters VA notes are of dubious veracity, as is using IMDB as a reference. It came to our attention a while back that IMDB is not an accurate source, as they have been known to accept faulty information as fact w/out making an attempt to verify it. Most of the VA names listed (other than the credited roles) are guesswork on the part of two of the editors, and while they state that they are reliable for this, there have been instances where they conflict, and we really have no way to resolve that. Personally, I see no problem with us just having the VA listed in the article in question. as we really don't need to start down the road of, say, Wookieepedia or Halopedia, with their overabundance of RL pages. SpartHawg948 06:01, December 11, 2009 (UTC) Reapers For some reason people keep inserting "the reapers" as adversaries. Now, I know from personal experience that this message isn't really going to change much, as the people who do this rarely read the talk pages thoroughly, but I'll spell it out anyways. There is one very simple reason that it is not acceptable to put "the reapers" or "Reapers" or anything of the sort under adversaries. This is a page about characters. The Reapers are not characters, they are a race. This means that Reapers should be on the Races page, not here on the Characters page. Oh, wait, it is on the Races page already!!! So please, no more inserting of "the reapers" as adversaries on the Characters page. They aren't characters any more than "the humans" or "the salarians" are. Thanks, SpartHawg948 22:04, December 13, 2009 (UTC)